I Read Men Who Hate Women—I Fear I Understand Why Way Too Many Men Are Obsessed with Joker

I watched my friend swipe left on this random girl on Tinder the other day. I asked why because I thought she was very beautiful. “I don’t know. I mean, she’s hot. She just doesn’t seem like a real person,” he said so casually. He quickly swiped left and right until he was out of people in the area and closed the app. “What do you mean ‘real person?’” I asked. Once again, my question was met with a nonchalant tone, “I just don’t think there’s any depth to her.”

I didn’t press him on it. I didn’t know her. She was a total stranger 5 miles away. But he didn’t know her either.

If you have gotten this far, you may have read the title. This isn’t the story of how I found out my friend was an incel. Because my friend isn’t an incel—far from it—but if I said that moment didn’t stick with me, I’d be lying. It reminded me of a quote from a book I read recently, Laura Bates’ Men Who Hate Women, an exploration of the rise of online misogyny, specifically zeroing in on how internet subcultures, such as incels, Men's Rights Activists, and pick-up artists, glorify extreme hatred toward women. “Women are not the problem; the problem lies with the men who refuse to see women as equals.” It’s about the complexity of these digital communities, showing how they recruit, radicalize, and spread dangerous messages. And these messages aren’t just staying contained in these communities, it’s spreading into other aspects of modern society; like Hollywood blockbuster movies.

For contextualization: Bates defines incels (involuntary celibates) as a group of men, predominantly active in private but not secret online communities, collectively called the “manosphere,” who blame women for their deficiencies in sexual and romantic conquests. “They want to see women subjugated as vassals, objects to be used primarily for men’s sexual pleasure and reproduction: pliant, obedient, and servile.” These men think of themselves as victims of a culture that favors women, whom they perceive as superficial, cruel, and responsible for their seclusion. Incels adhere to a misogynistic worldview where they feel entitled to sex and harbor resentment toward women for not fulfilling their desires. This toxic ideology, fueled by anger and bitterness, has not only fostered a hostile online subculture but has also led to real-world violence. And their creeds are so much scarier than you think they are. “The hatred of women is a reflection of the fear and insecurity that men feel in the face of women's power and autonomy.”

There is a level of peril in engaging in these types of discussions as a woman because society has put women in a place where “we don’t like to risk offending men. We find it hard to think of straight, white men as a homogenous group, though it comes so easily when we think of other types of people, because we are used to affording such men the privilege of discrete identities. These men are complex, heroic, individual. Their decisions and choices are to spring from a set of distinct and unique circumstances because we see them as distinct and unique people”(xvi).

It makes me think that maybe I should have pressed my friend on his little comment, but I wasn't in the mood to start a fight with him. And perhaps his comment was really harmless in isolation. However, the very fact that it reminded me of the broader patterns in Bates’ book suggests just how easily and casually women can be reduced to one-dimensional figures in the eyes of men. This view can fuel extreme misogyny, especially because it doesn’t look extreme.

I try not to keep my mind in a bubble because I know I live in one of privilege. I know my friend’s comment was pretty harmless in isolation. But I have to admit that it really did remind me of the echoes of broader patterns that Bates discusses in her book, how easily women can be reduced to one-dimensional figures in the eyes of men, and how this view can fuel darker mindsets regarding extreme misogyny because it doesn’t look extreme on the surface.

I could say “not all men,” but I don’t want to. I learned from the book that that’s become a ubiquitous whine that misogynists of this incel group use to defend themselves, even though, with my entire being, I know that “not all men” are evil misogynists.

But the “evil misogynists” I just referred to know they have to be more savvy than that. They know their battle cries against the feminine collective aren’t going to thrive in the politically correct cancel culture they despise. It’s scary that you are always just a few clicks away from their depressing and disgusting forums if you know where to click. They are smart enough to know that the only way to grow their network of beliefs is if “it can be so cleverly camouflaged as to be almost undetectable”(xxiv).

In some ways, our world today is the opposite of Joker's Gotham City, where crime runs rampant and unchecked. We live in a world where even the most harmful ideas are often restricted from open expression. This paradox makes Joker even more appealing to incels, as it reflects a twisted fantasy where their grievances are not just heard, but acted upon without consequence. The character of Joker represents an incel culture unleashed, free to indulge in rage and destruction.

Misogyny has persisted for so long precisely because it operates in subtle, insidious ways winded into everyday interactions. This is why my friend's innocuous comment about the perceived 'realness' of the woman on Tinder bothered me so deeply—I was once again reminded of that quiet yet pervasive dehumanization that underpins gender biases. Once you start noticing it, you just start noticing it more and more and more.

As I scoured the internet, and not the intelligent, academic side, the creepy, darker side, I felt physically ill as I lurked on their subreddits and the links I found hyperlinked in their comments. Scrolling through their posts was like falling into a dark hole of anger, loneliness, and violence. It wasn’t just the content that made me ill—it was the realization that these men, feeling wronged by the world, genuinely believed they were justified in their hatred. I don’t want to quote them. There is such a thing as being too far behind enemy lines. Discovering how rapidly this underground group operates has opened my eyes so wide that I don’t think I will ever be able to shut them.

Bates' analysis of incel ideology highlights how these men view themselves as victims, misunderstood and marginalized by society—sentiments that resonate strongly with Arthur Fleck in Joker, which I saw all over the internet. They love that movie.

On the subreddit “r/inceltear,” a community dedicating to making fun of incel culture, mattcon007 posted a screenshot of a TikTok with a caption that read: “I hate when females listen to radiohead. Theyll never understand what it’s like to be a true social reject. A creep. A weirdo. Theyll never understand what it’s like to be italian. Nobody understands me because I call movies, ‘films.’ I am literally the joker no one understands me.” I have to wonder if the original Tik Tok was satire, with the abundance of spelling and punctuation mistakes. But even if that’s the case, what makes it worthy of mockery? Why turn it into the punchline of your shallow joke?

Fleck embodies many of the frustrations that incels express in their communities: social and sexual rejection, feelings of powerlessness, longing for “revolution” and “backlash” against the mainstream, and a deep-seated rage toward a world they believe has failed them. It’s no surprise that incels have claimed Joker as an emblem of their struggle, seeing in the character’s descent into violence an examination of their fantasies of rebellion against a society they feel has wronged them. It’s kind of incredible, in a way that makes my stomach sink, how profoundly the film captured the essence of incels.

I feel sad when I think about incels. Most of them are lonely and sad and are products of many things that have gone wrong in our society. But that doesn’t mean they aren’t dangerous. Their pain has turned outward, targeting women and other groups. And after reading Laura Bates’ book, I have to conclude that I think that incels love Joker because they feel like the film accurately depicts their struggles with empathy and power.

It’s easy to see how the sense of victimhood that embodies the cinematic narrative of Joker would be easy for a vulnerable man to latch onto. I don’t think I’m reaching when I say that the film fuels their hatred and just furthers their mantra that they are victims of a culture of blame, where women are held responsible not just for men’s unhappiness but for the violence and abuse unleashed upon them as a result.

In terms of the movie, it’s important to note how Arthur Fleck’s relationship with women in Joker reflects his deep-rooted delusions and misogyny, most notably seen in his imagined relationship with Sophie and his violent reaction toward his mother not actually being his mother. He constructs a fantasy connection with Sophie, projecting his need for affection and validation onto her, and when he realizes that it never existed, his disillusionment turns into anger. This false relationship reveals his inability to engage with women as real individuals (sound familiar?), instead treating them as props in his fucked up brain. His hatred for women is also chillingly revealed in his relationship with his mother—and I’d love to get into Frued and Fleck, but that’s a whole other paper. Once he discovers that she’s not his biological mother, he brutally kills her. These horrifying movie moments do exactly what they were intended to do, shock, do just that. They highlight how Arthur’s fractured sense of identity and his need for control lead to dangerous expressions of violence toward women, all while being very “cinematic.”.

I never thought I would write that it makes me mad that Joker, being pretty widely regarded as a “good” movie, fuels the incel cause. Because I never go to the movie theater hoping that what I paid to see will be shitty. I actually think that Joker is good. The acting is phenomenal, the cinematography is on point, etcetera. But I don’t like that incels and other male rights activist groups were empowered by it. It kind of makes my blood boil, to be honest.

I’m not under any illusion that writing about this will stop the incel phenomenon. And I have to wonder if it makes it worse. As Bates so eloquently writes on page 43 after writing about a 2017 court case on incel violence, “This evidence firmly refutes the idea that we need pay no attention to incels. This is a radical, extremist movement, at least tens of thousands of members strong, that deliberately spreads a doctrine of hate-fueled misogyny and male supremacy and actively advocates for the violent rape and murder of women.” So why am I even writing this at all? I don’t want to spread their messages any more than they have already been spread. But staying silent feels worse. If we don’t talk about it, how do we confront how art and ideology intertwine?

Everything I’ve written about boils down to empathy. Empathy for these men is complicated. On the one hand, it's difficult for me not to feel sadness for people so lonely and full of self-hatred. Incels are products of societal failures—mental health crises, toxic masculinity, and a lack of emotional support. Joker undoubtedly captures these struggles, and the film walks a fine line between fostering empathy and excusing harmful behavior. Arthur Fleck’s character invites us to understand his suffering, but this can easily blur the lines between empathy and justification for the violence he ultimately commits. Fleck’s mental health issues are shown to the audience in incredibly vivid detail, as well as the constant social and professional reject he faces. It’s hard to not feel bad for Fleck. His life is really difficult. But is that a justification? It’s this ambiguity that incels latch onto, seeing their feelings of rejection and anger mirrored on screen.

But empathy without accountability is dangerous. From my friend’s casual dismissal of a woman’s "depth" on Tinder to incels on Reddit telling women who reject them that they should be assaulted, both contemplate a more comprehensive issue—how unconsciously men strip away women’s individuality. That subtle reduction of women to objects or "lacking realness" is precisely where the consequential problems begin. It may not seem like a big deal in solitariness, but it feeds into a mindset that, when unchecked, can contribute to the more extreme misogyny seen in groups like incels. Even in small, seemingly harmless moments, personal responsibility plays a crucial role in preventing the spread of more dangerous ideologies.

This is why the whole Joker incel relationship is so complicated. It doesn’t shy away from exploring uncomfortable, dark themes, which is part of its power. I'm not one to impose limits on what artists can create or the stories they choose to tell. I love movies that provoke, challenge, and make us reflect on uncomfortable truths. But, the impact of those stories and the way they resonate with specific audiences—like incels—demonstrates the importance of accountability in how we engage with such types of art. As a young woman and movie-lover, I can’t ignore how misogyny is woven into the fabric of our culture, in art, and interactions with friends of the opposite gender. Joker and incel’s reaction to the film forced me to sit with these discomfiting truths, not just as a viewer but as someone who deeply values the power of storytelling. I believe in artistic freedom, and I also recognize the impact stories can have—especially when they resonate with dangerous dogmas like those of incels. Stories like Joker are no joke.